Bethany and Molly share from the heart in this special episode that will open you up to an awareness and understanding you may not have considered before.
A powerful episode that you may not know you needed. Bethany and Molly share from the heart in this special episode that will open you up to an awareness and understanding you may not have considered before. Grief and trauma are more common than you think across the motherhood journey, but especially in pregnancies affected by alloimmunization. This episode is intended for any listener who has experienced loss related to pregnancy and motherhood, no matter how big or small, and for those who want to better support a person who has experienced pregnancy trauma and grief. Bethany and Molly share about grief from the loss of a child, and also grief from the loss of expectations, loss of trust, loss of hope for what pregnancy and motherhood would feel like. With the help of insights from previous guests, they discuss a path toward hope and healing the wounds we suffer with loss of a child, the burden of high risk pregnancy, and how to honor our losses.
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If you or a loved one are having thoughts of suicide contact your national suicide prevention hotline https://988lifeline.org/.
Research for this episode provided by Bethany Weathersby and Molly Sherwood of the Allo Hope Foundation. Find more information at https://allohopefoundation.org.
The Allo Podcast is produced and edited by Media Club.
Molly Sherwood:
The information shared on the Allo podcast is not intended as medical advice. Your medical care decisions should be made in consultation with your physician who is familiar with your specific case.
Bethany Weathersby:
Hi, welcome to the Allo Podcast from the Allo Hope Foundation. I'm Bethany Weathersby.
Molly Sherwood:
And I'm Molly Sherwood.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. Today we are discussing a very important topic, how to cope with trauma and grief as they relate to Alloimmunized pregnancies and how to find hope.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, this can feel like a daunting topic, but if we're being honest, trauma and grief are both very common experiences for most women who go through Alloimmunized pregnancies, even if their disease was on the mild end of the spectrum, or, of course, severe. And so there's no avoiding talking about this episode. When do we avoid talking about things? Never. We just talk about them.
Bethany Weathersby:
That's why we're here.
Molly Sherwood:
That's why we're here. But let me just set the tone for this episode for a minute because this is a topic that we both understand through personal experience, and obviously we acknowledge the darkness that this can be. But for this episode, we want to guide our listeners in a helpful way. So we are just going to jump in and try to keep the mood steady and comforting, but not sedate, not gloomy, not because we don't understand the depth of grief and trauma, but because we think the best way to help our listeners is to serve as guides here, and that's how we're going to pursue this episode.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And there's a lot of hope and encouragement in the middle of all this. Let's look at grief and trauma that stem from the Alloimmunized pregnancy, and then let's talk through some of the coping mechanisms and encouraging tips that help us move in the direction of healing and hope. And like Molly said, she and I will include some of our own experiences and share some excerpts from different articles in my blog. And then also Emily Rush our guest from the last episode, gave us some really helpful insights to include as well. So thank you Emily for that. And our goal is to give some practical action steps that our listeners can take towards healing and hope, like I said earlier, if they're experiencing trauma, grief, post-traumatic stress disorder, anxiety, depression, et cetera.
Molly Sherwood:
And we want other women to know they're not alone while they work through these really hard things in this very chapter of their lives. But, of course, let's give the caveat, we're not licensed mental health professionals. We're just speaking both from personal experience and learned experience and what we see in other women going through this type of grief and trauma.
Bethany Weathersby:
I love that you said the chapter, hard chapter in their lives. Something my mom has said to me before that really helps is think of your whole life like a book, and there are chapters in a book. Some are terrible and some are amazing. And just because you're in a really difficult chapter, it doesn't mean that's what the rest of the book is like. That chapter will end and another chapter will be next.
Molly Sherwood:
That's so good. Okay, let's dive in. I think it would be helpful to start with some basic definitions of grief and trauma, and then we can talk about what might cause grief and trauma during an Alloimmunized pregnancy. And we say Alloimmunized pregnancy because that's what this podcast is, and that's where our personal experience lies. But I think a lot of these things apply to just a general understanding of life's grief and trauma. And I think a lot of listeners will. I think this will speak to every listener in some way.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yes. I think grief and trauma unfortunately are universal experiences for humans. I don't think anyone is getting out unscathed.
Molly Sherwood:
Right. I know, true.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. So let's look at the official definition of grief that we found adapted from the APA Dictionary of Psychology. Grief is the anguish experience after significant loss, usually the death of a beloved person. Grief often includes physiological distress, separation anxiety, confusion, yearning, obsessive dwelling on the past and apprehension about the future. Intense grief can become life-threatening through disruption of the immune system, self neglect and suicidal thoughts. Grief may also take the form of regret for something lost, remorse for something done, or sorrow for a mishap to oneself.
Molly Sherwood:
It is a definition, but it's pretty poignant. I think it's really well written. Now let me talk about the definition of trauma also from the APA, the American Psychological Association. Any disturbing experience that results in significant fear, helplessness, dissociation, confusion or other disruptive feelings intense enough to have long-lasting negative effect on a person's attitudes, behavior, and other aspects of functioning. Traumatic events include those caused by human behavior like abuse, war and industrial accidents as well as by nature like earthquakes and disease and often challenge an individual's view of the world as a just safe and predictable place.
Bethany Weathersby:
Wow, that's a good definition too. Especially the part about how it challenges the person's view of the world, and also that fear and helplessness. That resonated so much with me. That's exactly how I felt during my Alloimmunized pregnancies.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, me too.
Bethany Weathersby:
For those that struggled with grief or trauma or other mental emotional consequences from your Allo pregnancy, you're not alone. I certainly have been through it. Molly has too, and I still deal with trauma and grief associated with all four of my Allo pregnancies. What about you? Did you feel like you struggled after or during your pregnancies?
Molly Sherwood:
I really did. I have shared before in my story in the My Story episode that I feel reluctant sometimes to share this because I realize how fortunate I am to have living children, but I'm going to share it because I think it could be helpful to women who have experiences similar to mine to validate what they've been through. I heard you say a loss of innocence as an example. And at first I was like, what does that mean? But I totally did experience that, the innocence of just assuming that things would be okay, the innocence of trusting somebody else to care for your baby. Losing that was something that I really mourned, and I lost a sense of peace and trust.
I, of course, lost expectations for how my pregnancies would go. I totally lost autonomy over the management of those pregnancies. And you know what else I feel like I lost as I was thinking through this? I feel like I lost a special type of closeness that I thought I would have with other friends and family members who are mothers. I felt like my experience, and maybe this is my own fault, but my experience felt so different from theirs that I lost this bond that I thought I would have with other mothers around me.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yes. That is such a good point. I definitely felt that too. And it was such a loss because in my first two, I guess, normal pregnancies that had been there, and it's expected and there's a great benefit to that. And so suddenly when that's gone, that is a huge loss. Thank you for sharing that, Molly. I just want to say that these consequences, grief and trauma, it is not always dependent on the outcome. I think it's dependent on your experience and what you go through, whether you have a healthy living baby or not.
Molly Sherwood:
Yes.
Bethany Weathersby:
So, okay, let's quickly look at the possible causes of grief and trauma for Alloimmunized women. And I just want to reiterate that this can be different for every person. So some of these might not resonate with you, but kind of going off of what Molly just said, her experience was, these are some possible causes of grief during an Allo pregnancy. Loss of safe pregnancy experience, loss of childbirth experience, loss of autonomy or control, loss of a child, the loss of your child's health such as lifelong consequences of severe or mismanaged HDFN, the loss of your ability to grow your family the way that you want. And this is a big one, but the loss of trust in the medical system, in your caretakers, your medical providers.
After I listed these out, I actually looked back through them to count how many I felt I had experienced. I think every single one I experienced, every single one, maybe not necessarily the health of a child. One of my babies did die, but all my surviving babies are healthy, which is such a blessing. But what about you, Molly? When you look at that list, I think there's seven. Which ones are true for you?
Molly Sherwood:
I reread your list, and I said that five of the seven were true for me, which was so surprising when I thought of it that way.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yes, yes. And this is such a good reminder of how an Allo pregnancy can lead to significant loss in grief, even if you have mild disease.
Molly Sherwood:
And what about, let's talk about trauma. This one might be a little harder because trauma is so individualized. So something that's traumatic for me might not be a problem at all for you. But at any rate, here's a list of some potential causes of trauma that some of our listeners might resonate with. So, for example, knowing your child's life could be in danger and the accompanying feeling of the helplessness to protect them, the painful, scary medical procedures like IUTs, having a Permacath placed, plasmapheresis and IVIG, and all of those side effects, anticipating an amniocentesis and then the fear of loss of control surrounding your birth, fear of unexpected or poor medical results like a high MOM during an MCA scan, finding out you have a very high titer, a bad ultrasound report, even finding out the baby is antigen positive or even going back as early as getting the positive pregnancy test. I felt that way. Honestly, the day I got the positive pregnancy test with my third, I cried the whole day not because I didn't want him, but because I suddenly realized what was ahead of us.
Bethany Weathersby:
I felt panicky like there was an emergency when I got that positive pregnancy test. I felt the urge to call 911.
Molly Sherwood:
I totally understand that. Okay, there's a few more here. Receiving inadequate medical care, the burden of advocating for the right care constantly, and the worry of potential confrontation, of course, losing a baby and the fear of losing a baby, feeling dismissed by others or that others don't understand, and that separation from a baby after birth, if your baby needs further evaluation or goes to the NICU. And then after birth, watching your baby suffer through monitoring and treatments. That's probably the tip of the iceberg, but hopefully those are-
Bethany Weathersby:
I know.
Molly Sherwood:
They definitely tip off thoughts for me too, so I'm sure everybody else, some of those click with other folks too.
Bethany Weathersby:
I think the first one might be one of the most traumatizing for me, and I'm sure many other women struggle with this one, which is realizing that your baby's life could be in danger, and that feeling of powerlessness to protect them myself. And I think just as a mother, with my children, I'm constantly assessing risk and keeping an eye out for danger, especially my two-year-old where I'm saving his life all day long.
Molly Sherwood:
Yes, same.
Bethany Weathersby:
It just naturally is happening in the background. My mind's always worrying like, "Okay, find the danger, protect them from the danger." And, of course, usually the best way to keep them safe is to keep them away from the potential danger. So if we're near a train track, we were just at this little train museum the other day, and it was next to a train track. And so, of course, I kept my kids at a safe distance from the track. Or if we have dangerous medications around or basically any medications, of course, we keep them well out of reach of the children in the home. But when I received that diagnosis of maternal Alloimmunization and was told my Cal titer was 1024, I literally could not keep my baby away from the danger. So it's just this incredibly traumatic place to find yourself in as a mother, and it really did trigger my fight or flight response.
Molly Sherwood:
That completely makes sense. You're trapped in that fear. There's nothing you can do. And I think what adds a layer to this is it's coming from your body, you're this baby's mother, and this is happening in your body to your baby.
Bethany Weathersby:
Right. So you even feel more of a responsibility to protect them. I found a really good explanation of why a high risk pregnancy or traumatic delivery can cause trauma responses or even PTSD.
Molly Sherwood:
I love this. I read over this this morning that you pasted, and I really like this.
Bethany Weathersby:
And we'll share links in the show notes to all of these great sources. So it says, "Trauma responses are normal reactions to abnormal events. By the very nature of a high risk pregnancy and traumatic delivery, you had to learn how to cope with high levels of fear, stress, and anxiety. And this put you on high alert. It made you hypervigilant to changes in your body and to your baby, and helped you become accustomed to feelings of helplessness. Your nervous system has been in high gear since your pregnancy and delivery. And all of these reactions can continue and are very normal reactions to a trauma such as a high risk pregnancy or traumatic birth experience. The normal reaction to trauma becomes PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder when your nervous system becomes stuck in this hyper aroused state. And that means the symptoms are persistent. They don't really lessen with time and significantly impair daily functioning."
Molly Sherwood:
I feel very seen. That's must've been written by someone. By the way, you have written down that that's from babiesafter35.com, so we'll like to that. But that must've been written by someone who has also experienced that.
Bethany Weathersby:
Right. It felt like a very clear explanation of what was happening inside me, which I appreciated.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, me too. And also, we have a list of common symptoms of having experienced PTSD, and I thought this was pretty interesting, so I'll run through these. Nightmares, fear or anxiety during the day, feeling jumpy especially when you hear loud sounds, heart palpitations, aches and pains not attributed to your physical postpartum recovery, flashbacks about your pregnancy or delivery, avoidance of places that remind you of your pregnancy or delivery. I still do that. I still do that.
Bethany Weathersby:
Me too.
Molly Sherwood:
Shock or disbelief, disorientation, being in denial about what you went through, running moments of your pregnancy or your delivery through your mind repeatedly, mood swings like crying and then laughing, difficulty remembering events from your pregnancy or delivery, feeling disconnected from it, or feeling disconnected or disinterested from your life, feeling numb, anger towards your faith or your religious beliefs, feeling guilty or ashamed for what you and your baby experienced and wanting to isolate yourself from others.
Bethany Weathersby:
So many of those I've experienced. What about you, Molly? Did any of those resonate with you?
Molly Sherwood:
Oh my gosh, so many of them. If I listed them back, it would be definitely.
Bethany Weathersby:
Right. So that's good to just have that in mind, to be aware of what's happening inside you and know when to seek help. If you have a lot of the things on that list, it might be something to look into. So really quick, I want to share an excerpt from my blog, which is called Losing Lucy and Finding Hope. And the blog post is called Finding Joy in My High Risk Pregnancy. And this paragraph just kind of gives a glimpse into how I felt when I was first diagnosed with maternal Alloimmunization. There's no terror, quite like a parent's fear when they realize their child is in danger. After two healthy, normal pregnancies, I was sent into a terrible new world when I found out at nine weeks that my third pregnancy would be an extremely risky one. My baby's life was in danger, and there was very little I could do on my own to protect my child. Not only that, but I was also told that all of my future pregnancies would be high risk as well.
It wasn't just this baby who was in danger, but all of my future children as well. My lifelong dream of a big family seemed to evaporate in that moment. The fear and anxiety consumed me. It was always at the forefront of my mind from that point on, suddenly the joy and innocence of pregnancy and childbirth were gone. And instead, I was left feeling terrified, vulnerable, and broken. I couldn't look forward to my due date with anticipation before. I couldn't make plans for this baby. When I thought about the coming months, I was flooded with a fear stronger than anything I'd ever felt before.
Molly Sherwood:
I really love that because you're not only talking about the one type of grief that we all think about when we think about grief, you're talking about grieving your lifelong dreams of your family size, your fear and anxiety, the loss of the joy and innocence of pregnancy. I love that excerpt. And by the way, that blog, shout out to your blog, because your blog was the origin of the Allo Hope Foundation. Before the Allo Hope Foundation, people were seeking information and comfort really just from your blog. So it'll be cool to link to it a couple of times in this episode.
So let's talk about coping and finding hope. So now that we've discussed grief and trauma and how they relate to our disease, let's look at what we can do about it. With time, we can learn to reset our body and heal from this trauma. So how do we do that? How do we cope with the overwhelm, the grief, and heal from the trauma and find hope?
Bethany Weathersby:
There really is so much hope to be found right in the middle of a high risk pregnancy or afterwards. So let's quickly look at grief first. Well, it's not quick. It's longer than I would. I tried my best to condense it. I'll just share about some insights from after I lost my daughter Lucy and then throughout my other pregnancies. And then Emily Rush, like we said earlier... Well, not she. I will read some of the quotes that she gave to me to share after, and it's from her experience losing her daughter Addison and also navigating her three high risk pregnancies. And, of course, Molly will share from her experience too. So one thought that has helped me is realizing that after my daughter died, the grief felt like this solid brick wall that suddenly was cemented right in front of my face, and it was between me and everything else.
I couldn't see any other parts of my life because of the brick wall, the grief, despair, aching, just aching like a physical ache in my chest for my daughter, a feeling of hopelessness. There were a few tiny chinks in the mortar, tiny holes that I could barely see through, but I really could not see the rest of my life or future or other relationships because that grief wall was so solid and thick, and that's all I could see. Ten years later now, it's still there, the wall is still there, and it's this lens that I see everything else through. But over time, the brick wall has grown thinner and thinner and thinner until it's become see-through. And now it's more like a net, and I can see through it and focus on the rest of my life and my future, my relationships.
Every now and then, something shifts and the net comes fully into focus, and it's all I can see. And that is normal to have these waves of deep grief regardless of how long it's been. The grief does stick around. It doesn't leave, but it really does become more manageable. It becomes not as heavy. It's not all encompassing like it used to be. And so I just want people who are grieving to know that the way you feel now or the way you feel when that fresh raw grief is there is not how you'll always feel. It's not permanent. It feels permanent like I'm going to feel like this for the rest of my life. Kind of like what we said about the chapter in the book, this isn't the rest of your book, this is a chapter really, that the intensity of the grief is not permanent. I couldn't fathom a future where I would be okay knowing that my daughter was dead, but here I am. I'm okay, I'm stronger, I'm happy. I laugh all the time even when it's inappropriate.
Molly Sherwood:
Yes, definitely. I can attest.
Bethany Weathersby:
So joy does come again, I promise.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, that's really great advice. I want to go through and list out some more insights from you and from Emily about coping with grief. I'll start. I can share a quote from Emily about what she wished someone had told her about grief. She says, "It is okay to let this loss change you. Not only is it okay, but it's probably better to let it change you because who you will be in five or 10 years because of this experience is probably a more compassionate, more loving, more invested, more intentional person than who you ever thought you could be. In the moment when you're going through this extreme loss, you're also grieving the loss of the person you thought you were going to be. It's normal to want to hold onto her so tightly." That is so interesting to think of it that way. When I read it that way, it makes me feel like I'm gaining a depth, a layer of myself.
Bethany Weathersby:
I remember after Lucy died, I wanted to tell everyone that I met that this isn't who I am. This is not me. I laugh, I sing, I act ridiculous. I enjoy life. And I was so devastated. I just wanted people to know my daughter died. This is not who I am. I'm someone else. But the truth was, it was who I was. It was who I had become, and there's no way to run from that. And it is good, like Emily said, to embrace it because in the end, that person, like you said, has more depth and becomes more compassionate. I'm a better person now than before Lucy died.
Okay, next thing on our list is expect other people to say insensitive, ignorant things. My uncle lost his first wife many, many years ago, and after Lucy died, he gave me some of the best advice anyone gave me about grief. He said, "Expect people to say hurtful things, sometimes ridiculous things, but don't let the anger and the bitterness take over. Forgive them. Most of the time, they have no idea what they're saying. They haven't been in your shoes. Let it go so that it doesn't consume you." And that was really, really helpful advice because people said ridiculous things. And I thought about before I had experienced this type of loss, I thought about all of the ridiculous things I'd said to other people who were grieving.
I was just like, "I can't believe that I said that. I am so embarrassed and humiliated, and I feel so bad." But it just helped me to give people the benefit of the doubt, be forgiving and compassionate to others because that's how I wanted them to respond to me when I said ignorant things, just because it's hard to know what to say when something terrible happens to someone. What do you say? So sometimes they're just doing their best.
And also another thought is that healing usually takes much longer than you expect, and that's okay. I remember one of my MFMs after Lucy died said, "You're going to be sad for an entire year." And I remember thinking, that's so long. Oh, my gosh. And now I'm like, "No, it was years. Years." One year would've been great if it was just a year. And that's fine. That's okay. You allow yourself to feel what you feel and go through that. And it does get better over time eventually. I know that's a thing that a lot of people hate to hear. It doesn't take the grief away, but like I said, it does ease the burden of it.
Molly Sherwood:
Here's something that Emily said. She said, "It's completely okay to have to speak what you need. It's unfortunate to have to. It's exhausting to have to, but you are going to have to stand up for yourself and your grief and your pain. You don't want to feel like you are carrying this added burden because you didn't get to fully process what happened." Sometimes I imagine you don't actually know what you need in any given moment, but when you do, permission granted to say it.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah, for sure.
Molly Sherwood:
And I want to add this quote from your blog post that I love. This applies to all of our listeners, I think, really. So it says, "Try not to compare this pregnancy with your previous pregnancies or with others' pregnancies." And then you say this, "Lucy's story is her life story. Nora's story is hers. Callums is his. No matter how hard some of the details are, they are theirs. And since I am their mom, I accept and cherish every one of their unique stories. I don't want some other lady's pregnancy because that is her baby's story. This is my baby's story, and I will own it and appreciate it as their unique story." I love that so much. That is the essence of motherhood in my mind. And I want to add one other thing, but, of course, I'm already crying, but I'm crying... This is not good.
Bethany Weathersby:
You're good, people cry.
Molly Sherwood:
I'm not crying of sadness. I'm crying out of gratitude, really. Oh, man.
Bethany Weathersby:
Do you want me to read it? No, okay. You can do it.
Molly Sherwood:
Maybe I should let you read it.
Bethany Weathersby:
You want me to?
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, you read it. But caveat, this is what I wrote the last minute this morning. Bethany has not read this or seen this, so go ahead.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. These are Molly's words. "I just want to add something as an observer who has not experienced this depth of grief. In my work with the foundation, I've had the life-changing experience of witnessing other women in moments of intense grief. The only way I can describe it is that it's not worldly. Deep grief like this from a grieving person, a grieving mother, is meant only for that person. And the expression of that grief is so deep and genuine that when I see it from the outside, it looks like a mother is communicating with the child they've lost or whatever the case may be. It's really a miraculous exchange. It's so intense that there are no words. It's like I'm not there. Even the grieving mother is not physically there. It's like souls are talking. It's something that should be embraced and allowed. I hope no one has to experience this type of grief, but I can say with certainty that this grief serves a purpose beyond what we can comprehend."
Oh, gosh. I was trying not to cry while I was reading that because it's true. And I was thinking of our dear friend Rose.
Molly Sherwood:
When I was with Rose, which we'll share about later in the season she had this just intense wave of grief over her losses. And I was sitting in the room with her, and I was sitting on the floor laying on her legs, leaning on her, and that grief was not for me and her. It was for her and her babies. And I watched it, and I knew that she was speaking to them. And I told you this, Bethany, I said that she didn't really have words for what she was experiencing, but she did say, "My baby, my baby." And I told you this, Bethany, and you said that in your deepest moments of grief, those were the only words that you have too.
And that is just something that is, it's really changed my perspective of life and death and just the power of souls communicating because that's what it is. And I think it's really miraculous. And I think that women who have experienced this type of loss need to know that that is something so powerful, that communication of that grief, and only a small subset of us will get to witness it. And I've witnessed it. So I wanted people to know that I believe in it.
Bethany Weathersby:
I think you're right, that connection between a mother and a child, I don't think there's anything like it on earth.
Molly Sherwood:
That's what I mean. It's not worldly.
Bethany Weathersby:
Right. And so when your baby dies and your heart keeps beating, it feels completely wrong, but that bond is not broken. It's not broken. It's still there, and you're still that baby's mom, and that's still your baby. So, yeah, in my deepest grief, the only thing I can say is my baby, especially the early days. I remember I could almost feel her on my chest. I could almost feel the weight and the warmth of her. But there was nothing there. There's not really any words to describe it, but thank you for sharing that, Molly. Yeah, we're both crying.
Molly Sherwood:
I know that wasn't the plan, but I think that that was important.
Bethany Weathersby:
This is grief, right?
Molly Sherwood:
Yep.
Bethany Weathersby:
This is grief. So speaking of grief, okay, let's talk about some practical tips of dealing with grief. And this is what it's like. You're crying, you're missing your baby, but you have to take one step and take another step forward. So let's take the next step forward. The first tip that I have is find a therapist. You guys, this is so important. Even if you've never had therapy or a counselor in your life, try to find one. Try to find one that you connect with. It can change everything. I have a quote from Emily, and she said that she didn't have a great experience with the first therapist she went to. She said, "I didn't know that having a therapist that you connect with can make all the difference. I wasn't getting better. I was almost feeling more debilitated. While I was seeing that first therapist, I decided to try another one. And my second therapist empowered me and got members of my community to see what support I needed. And that was amazing. Having the right therapist is vital.
So try to seek out a therapist, try them out, test it out. If it doesn't feel right, try another one.
Molly Sherwood:
That's really good advice. The first one doesn't mean that's the right fit for you. Also, you can join a support group, get enough sleep, which is hard, maybe read something comforting right before bed. I do a poor job even just day to day of finding things that actually comfort and slow me down at the end of the day. Some people need medication to help with this at different phases of their life. And consider asking your doctor about medication for depression and anxiety. I know I take medication for anxiety and you do too, Bethany.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah. It's been so important for my healing and my sanity really. I even took an anti-anxiety med during my Alloimmunized pregnancies.
Molly Sherwood:
Same.
Bethany Weathersby:
You did? Okay.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah. I take Zoloft.
Bethany Weathersby:
And my doctor, all of my doctors encouraged it. Yeah, I took Wellbutrin, and I checked with three different physicians. I was like, "Are you sure this is safe for my baby?" And they were all encouraging and said yes it's definitely needed and safe. Some other things are you can try to find special mementos of the loved one that you're missing. For me, that was Lucy's footprints, framing them, putting them up for everyone to see. Emily said, "Molly Bears was huge for me." And by the way, pausing her quote there, Molly Bears, it's an organization that takes requests from bereaved parents, and they create these personalized teddy bears that weigh the exact same as your baby that you lost. And it's really sweet. And they usually have the baby's name embroidered on the teddy bear, and they can personalize it however you want.
I believe they send it to you free of charge. It's amazing. I keep meaning to get one, but Lucy weighed one pound even. So if I got one, it would weigh one pound like Lucy did. So Emily said, "I couldn't go anywhere without having something in my lap after Addison died, something to fill that space where my belly once was and where a baby should have been. It was a pillow or a purse or something like that. And when I finally got the Molly Bear that weighs the exact same as Addison did, it just took a little bit of the pain away because it felt so familiar." And we will share a link in the show notes to Molly Bears.
Another tip is find good books or podcasts on grieving baby loss trauma, whatever you're going through. Audio books are great too if you have a busy schedule. After Lucy died, books were a lifeline for me truly. In the midst of great loss, it is so easy to lose sight of what is true. And these books reminded me of what was true. They anchored me while I grieved and reminded me that I wasn't alone. Other people who had suffered huge losses, they not only survived, but found peace and healing afterwards.
And that's what I discovered in those books. So here's just a quick list. Actually, let's just share it in our show notes because we're kind of running short on time.
Molly Sherwood:
Yeah, let's do that.
Bethany Weathersby:
I'll share some of my favorite books in the show notes. Another idea is to find some type of creative outlet for your grief. Some people paint or knit little hats for babies in the NICU. I started a blog, which was kind of scary, but like you said earlier, Molly, that eventually turned into the Allo Hope Foundation and turned out to be so therapeutic for me to work through my grief on my blog through writing.
Emily did a lot of crafting and memorial projects, and she said, "I needed to be able to tell people what happened in greater depth. It was an idea that my therapist had, so I ordered pins that people from my church could wear, and I handed them out at this storytelling activity where I had everything of Addison's on display so people could see it. And I just told them from beginning to end in great depth what had happened. And that was really therapeutic for me because when people would wear those pins to church, I knew that they knew and they remembered that Addison mattered and that they were thinking of her enough that day to let me know in a subtle but meaningful way. And I also made 100 ornaments in memory of Addison and sent those out to our friends and family because I didn't want to be the only one remembering Addison on Christmas Day."
Molly Sherwood:
Wow, I love that.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. Another thing, try to get lots of exercise, sunshine, and don't forget about your nutrition. It's hard because a lot of times you don't want to eat or you just want to go straight to the junk food. But that really is important to remember your physical needs while you're grieving. And, of course, if you have recently had a baby or planning on conceiving the future, take those prenatal vitamins. Another thing is to try to look forward to something. Find something, anything, and then write it on your calendar. And that can be hard to find something that you're looking forward to even if it's your preconception appointment or just something simple like watching a movie or eating some chocolate cake. Something. Put it on the calendar. And that's always helpful to try to find something to be joyful and excited about. And then this one's really important, try to make safe boundaries for your grief.
When you suffer great loss, it really is kind of like a suffering a soul injury. And just like a physical injury, it needs time to heal. It needs protection and nurturing. I remember when I snapped my ACL, which is a tendon in your knee during volleyball game in high school and then I had to have surgery to repair it, and I couldn't just hop out of bed and start walking after that surgery. I had to stay in bed. I had to rest and heal. I had these stitches, bandages, protective knee brace, and if I just said, no, I want to push myself, I'm going to stand up and walk right now, it would've caused more damage.
Molly Sherwood:
You're probably a great volleyball player by the way because your arms are so long.
Bethany Weathersby:
I know. I also played basketball.
Molly Sherwood:
That was the first visual I had when you said volleyball game.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah. They would make fun of me and my wingspan for sure when I played the sports. All right. It's the same with our heart wounds. They deserve rest, protection and safe boundaries in order to heal. And then they do heal, I promise. They do heal. And you can get up and walk one day and get back to life. And I also wanted to say, don't force yourself to do something you weren't ready for just because other people expect you to. You can totally give yourself permission to say no. And that might look like not going to your friend's baby shower, just sending a gift instead or skipping the family reunion if that feels too intense for you.
So this one's very important. If you start having thoughts of harming yourself or find yourself making plans about how you'll end your life, make sure to call your doctor, tell a friend or family member as soon as possible, and don't allow yourself to be left alone, especially with your children. And a good reminder also that, I promise, the way you're feeling now is not how you'll always feel. If you are having thoughts of suicide, the national hotline number is 988, so you can call that anytime if you're struggling with that.
Molly Sherwood:
Let's look at trauma now. I'm going to kick us off with some tips on dealing with trauma. First is getting professional help. PTSD, depression and anxiety are all medical conditions, and they deserve treatment just like any post-birth complication. One study showed that a brief counseling intervention for women who reported a distressing birth experience was effective in reducing symptoms of trauma, depression, stress, and feelings of self-blame. We'll put a citation in there for that. That was a randomized controlled trial. Those are great. Ignore those who invalidate your trauma by telling you that it could have been worse or that you should be thankful for positive aspects of it. Trauma is not defined by the outcome of the situation, but it's defined by your experience and the emotional aftermath of that experience. And notice thoughts of self-blame and challenge those thoughts when you have them.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah, that's something I really struggled with, especially after my last delivery, which was strange. He was healthy and I completed my family, and that was the worst postpartum depression, anxiety that I'd experienced. And, of course, it feels more intense at night. And so something that helped me find relief was I would put on some white noise in the background, and as I fell asleep, repeat to myself, "I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm doing a good job." And I would just say it over and over as I fell asleep and it was helpful.
Molly Sherwood:
I really like that because I notice when I see people in intense moments of feeling or PTSD it's hard to process a lot of thoughts and a lot of statements. So choosing just a couple affirmations to clutch in those moments and tell yourself over and over again. Sometimes that's all that your brain can process at that time.
Bethany Weathersby:
Right. Just little pieces of truth.
Molly Sherwood:
Right, exactly. And be mindful of your triggers and try to avoid them or plan ahead for them if you can. This could be skipping a baby shower, taking a break from social media, and know how to answer those questions. If there are certain questions that you hate answering or that cause lots of anxiety, try to come up with a standard reply for those questions that you always have in your back pocket so you don't have to fumble for words or feel suddenly struck by those new questions. And you can even practice them if it makes you feel more comfortable.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah, that was something that I heard other women say a lot was like, I hate when people ask me this. I don't know how to answer that question. One of the questions for me that was hard was, how are you doing? I didn't know what to say because the truth was that I felt terrible. Some days I felt dead inside, so I can't be like, "Oh, I feel dead inside." I didn't want to say that. And I didn't want to say I'm fine because I really was not fine. And so I read about this other mom who lost a baby and she says, "I'm surviving," which I like. I like that response, and I used to use that sometimes. I'm making it. And another question that can really be tricky is, "How many kids do you have?" Or, "Do have any children?" And so my go-to answer for that one is, I have five living children, and I leave it at that.
But it took me a while to get to that point. But once I had that standard response, it took the pressure and the fear out of those questions for me. Another thing is, this might sound silly, but this was very helpful and my therapist taught me this, something called breath prayers. And a lot of breathing techniques can help when you're feeling traumatized or you're feeling anxious or you're feeling triggered by something. This works by picking a piece of scripture or an encouraging thought kind of like we were talking about earlier, Molly, something like, "My baby is safe." And then as you take a long, slow, deep breath in, in your mind, you say the first part like this, you're breathing in and in your mind you're saying, my baby. And then you slowly let your breath out and finish the thought is safe as you release your breath and relax your body. And then you just repeat that as you breathe deeply, my baby is safe.
And it's kind of like meditation and breathing, and then again, focusing on true things. And it really does help you calm down, and it focuses your mind on the truth. Some of the other breath prayers that I used to say were God will heal me, God is in control. And, of course, my personal faith is the root of these. And so yours might be different, but I would say, I have her for eternity. And then another one was a personal promise that I felt like God gave to me, which was, I will redeem it. Whatever feels helpful for you, try that with the breath prayers.
Molly Sherwood:
Oh, sorry. It's my turn.
Bethany Weathersby:
Oh, my God. We're losing steam. Come on. We got this. We're good.
Molly Sherwood:
No, I'm not losing steam. I'm just feeling this.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. You're breathing. All right.
Molly Sherwood:
Next, is write down your story, your pregnancy journey, your birth story. I think writing down your story after experiencing trauma can help with healing and coping by preventing avoidance of these traumatic memories. I even feel that way sometimes about doing this podcast. It's a way of writing down our story. I feel it today going through this podcast.
Bethany Weathersby:
That's true.
Molly Sherwood:
It can really help you process and name your complex emotions, which otherwise don't really have words sometimes. And find your safe people, your support community, whether it's an online support group or your partner or your friends, parents, a church community. It's good to try to find at least one person that you feel safe with and try to be intentional about spending time with that person and ask for help from those people when you need it.
Bethany Weathersby:
I read this quote yesterday that really resonated with me. It's by Ruby Core. I think that's how you say her last name. And it goes like this. "Remember the body of your community. Breathe in the people who sewed you whole. It is you who became yourself, but those before you are a part of your fabric." And I love that image of the people sewing me back together, sewing me whole, those who came before me, and I appreciate how they're now part of my fabric." And I think of those women who lost babies before me who were willing to speak up about their losses or share their sorrow with me, and were willing to be vulnerable about what they had lost. That the people also who said, I don't really understand your loss, but I'm grieving with you and I'm going to just sit here with you in your grief. And even the people who met my physical needs with things like food or gift cards or just love, they are the people who sewed me up and they're now a part of the fabric of my life.
Molly Sherwood:
I'm so glad you shared that because one of the things I wanted to ask you this episode was what I can do as a support person to someone with grief and trauma, and those examples of what those people meant to you and what they did are really, really helpful to me.
Bethany Weathersby:
Probably the people who had the greatest impact in that way for me were my MFMs, Dr. Moise and Dr. Trevett truly. They sewed our family back together.
Molly Sherwood:
I hope they listened to this episode.
Bethany Weathersby:
They will. They will.
Molly Sherwood:
Another tip is to, and actually you wrote this tip, Bethany, but my OB had an intervention with me and told me the same thing because I kept having to come back in with Gray's pregnancy over and over. I kept bleeding and I was like, "I cannot keep doing this. I can't keep wondering." And she said, "Focus on the next milestone. You have to take it one step at a time. Seeing the heartbeat on the ultrasound, getting through the surgical placement of your port and Permacath, making it to the second trimester, getting to the first MCA scan, setting those goals." And she said the same to me. Let's make it to 24 weeks. Let's make it to 26 weeks. Just set those small goals to make it through the day, small attainable goals that feel less overwhelming and feel perhaps a little bit more in your control.
Bethany Weathersby:
Yeah. That's so good. I love that your OB was walking you through that.
Molly Sherwood:
That was awesome.
Bethany Weathersby:
And giving you that advice even though it's technically not, I guess, medical advice, it's so important in that moment.
Molly Sherwood:
It is. It's stuck with me now so that's good.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. Here's another thing that we will reference in our notes. We'll put a link in our notes to this, but I did really quick want to just mention something that I discovered while I was digging and researching for this episode. It's called post-traumatic growth.
Molly Sherwood:
I love that.
Bethany Weathersby:
And it was a phenomenon. I know.
Molly Sherwood:
Love that title.
Bethany Weathersby:
And when I read it, I was like, "Oh, I've seen this, I've seen this." And the women were my heroes. But it's a phenomenon that was identified by psychologist Richard Tedeschi and Lawrence Calhoun in the 1990s. And based on their research, the pair described five categories of growth that occur over time. I just wanted to read this really quick. Survivors of trauma recognize and embrace new opportunities. They forge stronger relationships with loved ones as well as with victims who suffered in the same way. They cultivate inner strength through the knowledge that they have overcome tremendous hardship. They gain a deeper appreciation for life and their relationship to religion and spirituality changes and evolves. I just love that. It's what I've seen in these amazing, courageous women who've been through Alloimmunized pregnancies and a lot of hardship and loss. And this is what I see often at the end of it is this incredible growth and deep appreciation for life and compassion for others. And quickly, I know-
Molly Sherwood:
I love this guy. Do it.
Bethany Weathersby:
All right, thanks.
Molly Sherwood:
Permission granted.
Bethany Weathersby:
I could talk about this for 12 to 14 hours exactly. Here's a quote from my favorite book on grief called A Grace Disguised by Jerry Sittser. He says, "The soul is elastic like a balloon. It can grow larger through suffering. Loss can enlarge its capacity for anger, depression, despair, and anguish, all natural and legitimate emotions whenever we experience loss. Once enlarged, the soul is also capable of experiencing greater joy, strength, peace, and love." And I certainly have experienced that myself. All right. Should we wrap it up, Molly?
Molly Sherwood:
Let's wrap it up.
Bethany Weathersby:
Okay. All right. Let me end with some thoughts for our listeners. I want you to know that you are equipped to be your baby's parent. You have everything you need to be exactly who they need as a parent. That's already in you. Another thought is that suppressing hope doesn't actually protect you from suffering loss. That's kind of a tendency we have is, okay, I'm just going to be realistic. I'm not going to be hopeful. But really it doesn't protect you from the pain of the loss. I just want to encourage everyone to leave a little space for hope. Whatever your situation, leave space for hope because it is so incredibly powerful you guys. And honestly, I really think that your baby feels that hope. And also the main thing I want everyone to know is that you are not alone going through this. We're here for you. We're here with you every step of the way before, during and after your Alloimmunized pregnancy.
Molly Sherwood:
I love those so much. That's a great recap. Our goal today was to describe what grief and trauma can encompass and open up our awareness and acceptance of what it is. Bethany, you did so much work for this episode, giving wonderful concrete resources and tips on how to process this. So these are going to be some pretty hefty show notes, but we're going to have just a treasure trove of references in there. It's going to be good.
Kiddo:
Whether you are a patient, provider or otherwise affected by antibodies in pregnancy, we are here for you. We have great resources on our website at allohopefoundation.org. That's allohopefoundation.org.
Bethany Weathersby:
The Allo podcast is a production of the Allo Hope Foundation. It was researched and written by Molly Sherwood and me, Bethany Weathersby. It's produced and edited by CJ Housh and Eric Hurst of Media Club. The Allo Podcast is sponsored by Janssen Pharmaceutical companies of Johnson and Johnson.
Molly Sherwood:
Oh, my gosh. Are you supposed to be a teacher or something? You're a really good reader.
Bethany Weathersby:
Look, why is there a word that has a silent P, a silent H?
Molly Sherwood:
You should know. I wish you would teach me.